‘Elections in third world countries are always problematic’

The coup plotter now turned democray advocate

Former President of Pakistan, Pervez Musharraf claims a 100% free and fair election is not possible in some third world or developing countries with massive diversities in ethnicity and religion. Exceprt of the interview he recently had with NEXT's Ayo Okulaja:

As Nigeria prepares for a general election amidst a background of corruption and fears of threats to democracy, what lessons can Nigeria learn from your country, Pakistan?

Nigeria is a country with a strong economy, with a GDP of about $170 billion. For a country to stand on its own, it needs a good economy. The next step is that of leadership; once a good leader is thrown up, and he gets the right people to work with him, then the nation can progress.

Corruption is a widespread problem which needs to be arrested at the top governmental level and this will prevent it tripling down. So, I have faith in Nigeria that it will pull through.The perception of fair election is different from the West from what obtains in developing countries like Nigeria or Pakistan.

Nothing like 100% fair elections can be possible where we have societies with tribal, religious, sectarian, and ethnic diversities. So, in these environments, a degree of compromise on fair election does take place. There are individuals who will want to take laws into their hands...so one should not be worried that it is not free and fair, though it ought to be free and fair.

Efforts must be made by the Nigerian government to make sure it is fair to a very large extent. But the truth is it will not be as fair as it is in the UK or Europe.

Isn’t this a pessimistic view and why will this not be possible in countries with brilliant minds.......

This has nothing to do with brilliance......there is massive illiteracy, backwardness, and poverty amongst a wide range of people at the grassroot level who can be manipulated due to the enabling environment for those who want to be manipulative.

So, there can’t be free and fair elections in such environment. That is the realist stand and not pessimistic. Idealistic values will only work in the Scandinavian countries.

In your lecture, you said the military should be constituted into helping democracry work, as seen in Pakistan. Do you think other developing countries should copy this?

It depends on the condition in the country. I was only talking of Pakistan, where the military is most structured organisation and the people keep running to the army for deliverance ‘whenever’ the country is suffering.

Throughout its sixty years, the democratically elected governments have barely performed. Therefore, there should be checks and balance on the prime minister/president and the parliament. Because without these checks, it (democracy) cannot function well.

In Pakistan, that check can only be provided by the military and the army, and that check must be constitutional. It is not as if I want the army to be super/over-structured on the Senate.

Today, the army has no role in the constitution, but people still run to them and demand from them to interfere and when they interfere, it becomes unconstitutional. So, why not make it constitutional, if that is what the people want and what the environment dictates. Because, as we have seen in Pakistan, if the military comes they perform very well and when the civilians are back, they take the country back to square one.

So, utmost military is not the answer; we must create institutions that will make democracy function without letting the army get involved in the legislative and parliamentary roles. It is only the army that can make some things work in our world. For example, the army can be used to ensure free elections, because if they man election polls, no one will dare go there to snatch the booths.

That is the reality in Pakistan. I don’t know the reality in Nigeria, but the military must be constituted into a body so that they can exercise checks through their force.

How is Pakistan handling the issue of minority?

Empowerment; don’t let any member of the society be segregated. All people must be empowered, vertically and horizontally, including all tribes. All ethnic groups, all sects must be politically empowered. And this can be done by reserved seats, like what we did in some regions where some non-Muslims win elections.

So, there is no fixed formula. You need to see into your own environment and evaluate what is the best to empower people. The key is to empower people; don’t let them feel disempowered, because the danger is not giving power, it is denying power. Don’t deny power to any member of the society.

In your lecture, you stated that dictorship is a state of the mind. Will you say your regime was democratically minded?

Absolutely, I was democratically minded as the leader of Pakistan. I maintained the leadership of monitoring system that came around by the military and this ensured civility nationally.

The essence of democracy is empowerment of people, the minority groups, and that is what I did throughout my reign.

Do you have fears over India and Pakistan conflicts, which took a new turn following the attack on Mumbai hotels?

After the terror attack by Pakistani militia on India hotel, despite ongoing peace talks initiated during my regime, the statements from the India government to the Pakistanis was very bullying. I have a lot respect for Mr. Singh (India’s Prime Minister), but such statements must not be directed to the Pakistani people. We must collectively fight terrorism and extremism in both countries, particularly amongst the Muslim youth in India, who are now developing nexus with Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

We ourselves are victims of these attacks, and the Pakistani government is not responsible for this. Stamping out the Taliban is guerrilla warfare, as they have no border to invade and claim victory. Therefore, we must not lose and cannot lose. We need to work out a winning strategy.

What is your view about the planned withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan?

The completion of the job in Afghanistan is putting a legitimate government before quitting. Therefore, the exit date of July 2011 is misplaced.

Are you saying the government of Hamid Kazai is illegitmate?

A government which has weak representation of the 50% Pashtun majority’s does not have legitimacy among the people of Afghanistan. How can you run a country with a minority of 8%?

You have been named as a prosecuting witness in the ongoing investigation of Benazir Bhutto’s assasination. How will you react to this?

Nobody is doing that except for some politicians trying to implicate me. My government did everything possible to protect her. I personally told her that intelligence had revealed that she was a target and we told her not to go to the place where she was assassinated. She stuck her neck out and it’s just unfortunate that she was assassinated. I don’t want to reply to it because it is just ridiculous.

How are you preparing to return to Pakistan for the next general elections in 2013, as you remain in London on a self-imposed exile?

I feel I must work for the country and not myself. I am preparing very well for my return because there is the problem of security, as I fought strongly against terrorism and extremism and stood against anyone who talked against the integrity of Pakistan.

I may be having some enemies which are there, so the security concerns. And there is also some certain politicisation of legal issues, which is not there at the moment, but the possibility of their politicisation is out there. Therefore, I need to create an environment of support in Pakistan before I reach Pakistan, and the more political clout I have, the less will be the danger against me.

The man you deposed to become the Pakistani leader is now an opposition leader against the ruling government. Will you work with him to achieve your ambition?

The PLMQ supported me a great deal and the maximum electable people are in this party, which are neither with PLMN or Peoples party. They are just in the centre, and yet they don’t accept the leaders of the PLMQ. There is a political void in PLMQ which I am now trying to come and gather all those who are neither with PLMN or People’s party, as most of them are in contact with me. Many want to join me when I reach there, so I know the environment and will work with it.

The other is the PLMN, which is Nawal Sharif; my door will be open to anyone, but right now, they are on a course of vendetta and as they say, you don’t clap with one hand. It’s not merely possible that if I want to be with him. I don’t want to be with him, but if he wants to be with me, that will be alright, as far as I am concerned. But more than that, what is important is the people of Pakistan and their electable local leaders, who will be answerable to me.

I am on a dual track of getting the people and the electable onto my side, so that once I nominate someone for the people, he will be voted in. That will change the political culture and it is the only way to get good people into power.

I am creating a move to involve the real Pakistani people and their tribal leaders and chiefs, coupled with Pakistanis in the Diaspora.

What are your regrets of ruling Pakistan for nine years?

My graph was very high in January 2007, but it plummeted by December 2007 because of the lawyers issue and the result was very negative for me as well as the country. What I have learnt is that if doing the right thing might have negative implications for the country, then that thing shouldn’t be done. That is where pragmatism should have come in. I regret doing that because the country is suffering now.

Other than that, I am very proud in succeeding in the economy front. My only regret is that we did not achieve such high success in some other critical sectors, but we will achieve it next time.

What is your take on the recent Nigeria-Iran brawl over weapon shipments?

I am very sad that Iran is exporting arms to any other country. It is very saddening, but I cannot say for sure that Iran is involved.

The world has to conduct necessary investigations and any country involved must be penalised.

Mr. Musharraf was recently in Lagos, where he delivered the 12th Anyiam Osigwe Anyiam Memorial lecture on ‘Democracy as Holism: That the dove may be set free in our land’ (Political stability, security, peace, and social economic development as integrals for democracy.)

Source:234next